Inside the mind and heart of Venkatesh Sridhar

As you all know I have been spending quite some time over at Mutiny, reading a variety of blogs that are of interest to me. One such blog was titled, Open letter to Ms. Sonia Gandhi by Chacko. In the post, Chacko asks about Mrs. Sonia Gandhi’s views on the strike organized in Kerala, India by the UDF, a political alliance led by the Congress against the policies of the LDF government, an alliance of all Left parties in the state of Kerala.

It was against the price rises of rice and other basic commodities in the state of Kerala. This despite the fact that the Congress heads the Union Government in New Delhi. Now, the crux of the matter is that Chacko laments about the fact that Rahul Gandhi, who is poised to be the next Congress leader and is projected as the next generation of the Congress, does not list his email address in his Lok Sabha (the lower house of Indian Parliament) profile page. This despite, Rahul Gandhi’s interests being the Internet. Now, any 4 year old kid today knows how to use e-mail, chat and surf the net. And I am sure someone whose interest is Internet surely would have an email id. And also every leader in the Lok Sabha is allocated an email id which is yourname@sansad.nic.in (Sansad means Parliament in Hindi, NIC stands for National Informatics Center, which is responsible for all Government domain and Internet services and .in stands for the country Top Level Domain of India.), so Sonia Gandhi’s email is soniagandhi@sansad.nic.in, which is where Chacko sent his email to.

Maybe Rahul did not want to share his email id for the fear of ’spam’ from the people of India, who by the way he is supposed to represent. Maybe he should have just shared his email anyways which leader would read his own mails will be handled by some secretary any ways unless of course you are President Abdul Kalam, who as everyone knows was known to respond to his emails and who by the way has his own website where he talks about his thoughts and idea, no political agenda bullshit.

Now, I digress, why am I blogging about all this with a post title of Nehru Dynasty: Why should we not ask questions? - no its not that I am going to do a summary of what he has done. But this has more to do with a side note to Chacko’s post where he asks Sonia Gandhi this question:

“Anyway, what I wanted to get in touch with you is about my home state of Kerala. I’m not an LDF supporter but what your party workers did during ”Hartal” day was shameful. Is this the kind of politics you want to encourage? Please let me know. Why do you want to make people’s life so difficult? What good does a hartal do? I’m not going to go into details, it’s been well documented in the media. How can we expect a different kind of politics from you and your party? Your response or lack of it will decide whether I vote for your party in future elections.”

This despite Sonia Gandhi saying this on her biography page and I quote:

“The Congress is unique. Our uniqueness arises from several basic features of the Congress s history, its character, its ideology and the legacy of its leadership. I am convinced that the time is ripe for a massive renaissance of our political culture so that we build that society which combines compassion with competence, equity with excellence.”

-Smt. Sonia Gandhi

Emphasis is not mine but picked up from the webite.

And I commented on this saying thus:

Haha, I really take this post as a satirical one, because I cannot believe Sonia Gandhi is even bothered about ordinary citizens like you and me. And you want to know why, because we are not from the lower strata of the society, we are not the ‘aam aadmi’ you see.

You have a roof over our head, branded clothes to wear and four square meals a day. We do not fall in her ‘target demographic’.

You do not belong to a minority group of any interest to her.

Why the hell would she even bother to read. The ‘Youth’ leader probably does list an email address for one reason only that is not to get any. This despite the internet being one of his Favourite Pastime and Recreation.

By the way his Lok Sabha page reads like an entry made into a page. I mean he does not even care to create his own page unlike Anil Ambani who had a pretty flamboyant web page till the time he was in the Parliament.

Well, what else can you expect out of the Nehru family?

(The last line has been highlighted by me as this is the basis for this post.)

1conoclast, responded to my comment:

VS… Care to explain your last line…?

I responded saying:

1conoclast,
The Nehru family has consistenly let down India ever since the times of Jawaharlal Nehru. Who do you think got China the Permanent seat on the UN Security Council with the veto power - It was the great Jawaharlal Nehru who sacrificed an offer to India and instead gave it to the Chinese to propagate the ‘Hindi-Chini Bhai Bhai’ concept.

Who was the first democratically elected PM of India to impose an Emergency in India and then let her cronies take over. - Indira Gandhi

Who was the first Prime Minister who went into another country to help it in its genocide program? - Rajiv Gandhi

Does that justify my line?

1conoclast was not satisfied:

No VS it doesn’t.

You’ve picked on the mistakes (and that too is open to debate) of some of India’s greatest children (2 of whom sacrificed their very lives in the service of their nation), and are assuming that they were all bad based on those debatable facts.

Nehru was a freedom fighter. As was his father. As was his daughter. Shouldn’t that alone bring him respect? Do we now insult freedom fighters in our country? Nehru tried to govern India to the best of his abilities. He may have failed (very debatable again!!!) according to a bunch of people, but to another (bigger) mass of Indians, he remains a hero. So who’s right?

I just typed in Nehru+”security council” in Google. Nothing came up that vindicates your claim. Can you quote a respectable source for your claim?

No one questions Dr. Radhakrishnan’s achievements in India. Only the Nehru-Gandhi family is painted black. Ever wonder why??? It’s a deliberate ploy to target India’s first family, so that the hindutva brigade can wrest power from them. We all quickly need to realize that!

Once we’re done with Nehruji, we’ll move on to Indira Gandhi.

I followed up with:

1conoclast,
Here is my source - http://www.thehindujobs.com/thehindu/2004/01/10/stories/2004011004021200.htm

I hope The Hindu is a credible enough source for you.

Also, I do not understand this - I do not and will not ever question the freedom fighter in Nehru. I did not do so.

Well, you say that it should not be compared like that - well well let’s see how other leaders are remembered. Adolf Hitler - hated all over the world despite the things he did for his country - revamped its economy when it was struggling, united them, made a forlorn nation proud.

Winston Churchill - they say he is the best wartime PM Great Britain ever had, as if he did nothing else in his regime.

JFK - Known for the Bay of Pigs invasion disaster despite what all he did to help the segregation end - the Civil Rights Act of 1964, people do not remember the aversion of the Cuban Missile Crisis, they call him a flamboyant flirt and best known for having a relationship with Marilyn Monroe.

Which is why I like Gandhi. The man had the guts to write a book that told about his wrongdoings in life. He was the one who said he will not be the PM as that was not his goal and Nehru was the second choice to C. Rajagopalachari, but Gandhi feared that C. Rajagopalachari’s personal relationship (their children were married to each other - source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajmohan_Gandhi - their grandson) can be construed as such.

The fact of the matter is my friend - the rightful First Family of India is the true Gandhi family whose patriarch is Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, not his disciple’s family whose daughter so conveniently decided to keep the Gandhi surname for political benefit - do not believe me go into the villages in backward areas and ask if Indira Gandhi was the daughter in law of Mahatma Gandhi and they will say yes.

And, I am an independent thinker, Nehru’s socialist policies kept us behind for quite sometime this despite the fact that as per Dr. Manmohan Singh’s speech at the Japanese Parliament on 14th December 2006 - He stated; “Jawaharlal Nehru wanted India to develop close ties with Japan and learn from its experience.” - source - http://www.embassyofindiajapan.org/word/2006primeminister/Diet_Speech_eng.doc (its from the Indian Embassy in Japan - credible source right?)

I do not understand why questioning his policies as the first Prime Minister of Independent India equates to questioning his role in the freedom struggle?

This is the bullshit that the Congress feeds to you - that the first political family of India is the Nehru family - that’s a piece of bullshit. It took a Mahatma Gandhi with his ideals to free India become one of the very few countries in the world whose freedom struggle was founded on the principle of peace.

I highlighted the hyperlink to my source on the Nehru issue because that was a cause of concern with 1conoclast who said this and this:

Heyyyyy VS…!

The link you mention is something I saw yesterday. The reason I hadn’t torn it to shreds yesterday is because my research on it is still incomplete. FYI, The Hindu has a website called hinduonnet.com not thehindujobs.com. I have sent this link to The Hindu for them to verify it’s veracity & am waiting for their response. I may be wrong but I strongly suspect that the website you mentioned is a cleverly disguised hindutva propaganda website. A large number of them abound & we internet novices in India quote them as creditable sources!!! Dangerous trend; MUST be curbed! Will let you know the moment I hear from the guys at The Hindu.

(If you go to thehindujobs.com home page, you’ll find that it was last updated on Feb. 20th! Today is the 27th! If you go to hinduonnet.com, you’ll see today’s date. Does that point to anything…? If I’m right here, this will be an expose worthy of Tehelka!!!)

Even if this link above is valid, are you sure that Shashi Tharoor’s comments have not been misrepresented? If I’m not mistaken Tharoor has called the period after Shashtri’s death up to the ’90’s, India’s worst period development wise (citation needed). That could only mean that he considered Nehru’s economic initiatives worthy!

And since you seem to rely pretty heavily on Wikipedia, I’d recommend you read the entire section on Nehru, with special attention to his socio-economic policies. Would like to know what you have to say post that.

I’m a little upset at your speaking of Nehru & hitler in the same breath. My point on Churchill & JFK is exactly that. It isn’t fair to remember them only for one thing! Similarly Nehru! It’s important to understand the man in his totality, understand his good points as well (which I personally believe are greater).

As for Indira adopting Gandhiji’s surname, I’d like “respectable” proof again. As far as I’ve “heard” Feroz too had the same surname & they only changed the spelling a little. Even if they did so, what is to say that they didn’t do it as a tribute to Gandhiji & not for political gains. It all depends on how you view people. If you are bent on assuming that everything is done with a negative ulterior motive in life, then even their good deeds will look bad to you. (You here means anyone!)

I’m as big a fan as you are of Gandhiji, but that’s a side discussion.

Again, like I said, we’ll talk about Indira later, once we’ve settled on Nehru!

—(2nd comment: ) –

PS VS…

Missed some points in my response…

- Don’t quite get your point on the Jap embassy link. Are you saying that you don’t credit Nehru with anything despite what Dr. Singh said??? Please come back to me after reading the Wiki section on Nehru that I mentioned earlier.
- As for socialist policies keeping us behind, I’d like to know if anyone else at that time had suggested any other alternatives??? From my memory, when PV Narsimha Rao & Dr. Manmohan Singh embarked on their Globalization programme, the bjp was insisting on “Swadeshi”!!!!!!! Today, the same hypocrites want to claim credit for India’s development??? LAUGHABLE!!!
- Don’t jump to conclusions. The Congress hasn’t fed me anything, least of all bullshit. I wonder how you came to the conclusion that the Congress feeds us bullshit. Who fed that precious tidbit of information to you???

All this was on 27th February 2008. I had gone home by the time this comment was posted and the next day Thursday I was not well, did not land up to the office and the weekends in Dubai being Friday and Saturday, I could not get to respond before today. Now, I came to the office specifically to ensure that 1conoclast (and other readers) dont miscontrue my absence as something else, which almost happened.

Now, I am a die hard Virgo, a guy who really takes it personally if he is questioned about whether the sources he mentioned are correct, I almost feel like my integrity is questioned (in fact my economics teacher in college used to comment on my fixation with adding the source of whatever information I am putting as a laudable one) . Though let me add I know and understand that 1conoclast did not do it.

And here is the beginning of my response, this post was spawned off because my reply is too long.

1conoclast, you wanted a more credible source than The Hindu Jobs site, well here it is. The original link from The Hindu website itself. Now, I do not know and neither am I qualified enough to answer your question about why The Hindu Jobs website is not updated. But, I do have on the Internet since 1995 and have gone through the ARCHIE, VERONICA, JUGHEAD, BBS, etc days when someone running a 19.2 Kbps modem was on a ‘fast’ connection to the broadband era driven Web 2.o days today. I know about phishing and I do know when something is a bad link or not. Plus, you are giving the RSS and the VHP too much credit by saying they will do something like this to just discredit the Nehru family.

Also, what surprises me is that the link is dated Saturday Jan 10 2004 and for the right wing parties to have kept the site update for so long is very vivid imagination. You and I know that a simple tag like %systemdateandtime% is enough to display your computers current date and time on a website and have a script that can say minus anywhere between 10 mins to 2 hours and Show it as updated at a particular time but on the same date.

Now, with that sorted out and by the way I am sorry to have spoiled your ‘tehelka’ level expose - which proves that you have been fed up bullshit from the Congress because you believe against all logic that this could be though of by them, give me a break.

I want to bring your and the rest of world’s attention to the fact that I never compared Nehru with Hitler in that post. I am not that stupid to insult a prominent freedom fighter for one of the rare peace oriented freedom movement in the world to someone who caused so much anarchy. I was just saying that for you to tell me not to talk about the mistakes Nehru made as the Prime Minister of Independent India has nothing to do with his involvement in the freedom struggle. You want me to talk about Nehru’s good points and not talk about his mistakes and say that those mistakes are debatable. Well, so, is the history surrounding Hitler, with people saying there was and there was no holocaust. But, Hitler is and always has been painted in the black for the same despite the fact that his popularity was because he ran for elections under the backdrop of the Great Depression.

Well, I do link a lot to Wikipedia and that is because you can find the information in one page, instead of having to link to many pages and usually Wikipedia articles do quote sources. By the way, in that comment, I had quoted Wikipedia only once and that was for the Gandhi grandson Rajmohan Gandhi.

If, you feel that being a hero equals to being popular, sorry I disagree and I believe that’s the fundamental problem with us Indians. We do this hero-worship without finding out whether the guy was any good for the nation or not. Nehru did do things that really changed India - notable being Industrialization, foreign policy (though I felt he leant too much to the Left creating a rift with the US, further stoked by his daughter, Indira), secularism that he proposed.

I cannot worship a guy blindly, sorry its not so simple for me, because I can think. A true hero is one who is as open to admitting his mistakes as he is to taking credit. Which is why Mahatma Gandhi was so great and he made people come with him, because he gave the people a noble cause and a novel way of doing it, which is why he became the undisputed leader of the freedom struggle and the Father of the Nation. Now, I have failed to understand how come the Nation’s Father’s family is not the first family. Well, that’s India!!

So, why are you so closeted about admitting Nehru’s mistakes. His leaning towards Left really left India behind for a long time. Did you forget the Licence Permit Raj, how that stifled the Indian economy for ages, we would have been a far developed nation. If Nehru did admire Japan so much for what it did post World War II in terms of economy why did he not follow it - which is what the link for the Japanese Diet (Parliament) was for?

You talk about P V Narasimha Rao and Manmohan Singh’s liberation of economy, sorry my friend the truth is that if at that time we would not have liberated the economy we would not have had enough foreign exchange to buy us necessary items like Petrol, Kerosene, Cooking Gas, etc. The IMF arm twisted India into signing the deal. And by the way, the Gandhi family had nothing to do with it, but guess who gets the credit, its Rajiv Gandhi. Manmohan Singh gets it because he is the PM and they cannot take it away from him. But, Narasimha Rao rarely got any credit. Even when he died, no one from the Gandhi family turned up instead sending representatives. This was for a man who sent Atal Behari Vajpayee, a member of the opposition to represent India’s case in a debate on disarmament at the United Nations. That takes guts, let’s see Sonia do that with the Left, who are her allies, let alone the opposition. If that’s asking too much how about going against convention and appointing a non political minister who later goes onto become the Prime Minister (read Manmohan Singh)

I am pissed with the Nehru family because cumulatively they have been in power for 37 years directly in power and 4 years indirectly (read Sonia Gandhi as UPA Chairperson) - my source is this. And yet their execution has not been that great. I mean 37 years is a long period out of which 17 by Nehru, 15 by Indira, 5 by Rajiv and yet we are still a developing nation, garibi hati nahi mere dost. What happened to Nehru’s promise when he rose at the stroke of midnight hour on the 14th of August 1947 to make the speech titled ‘Tryst with Destiny‘ and said thus,

“The future beckons to us. Whither do we go and what shall be our endeavour? To bring freedom and opportunity to the common man, to the peasants and workers of India; to fight and end poverty and ignorance and disease; to build up a prosperous, democratic and progressive nation, and to create social, economic and political institutions which will ensure justice and fullness of life to every man and woman.”

You tell me they are all heroes for majority of the people of India, so much so that the Congress has built a legacy which says that anyone from the Nehru family is a hero - case in point Rahul Gandhi. I was stunned when I went to Amethi and I found that the place was full of shit, so much so for the next PM in waiting as he is touted to be taking care of his constituency. I know that shall be the case all over.

Also, I want to point out to you, that I am neither a supporter of the Congress, the BJP, the Left or any political party out there. I think. I speak. I comment.

My point of view on some matters may match that of any political party either in full or part. But, that does not make me a supporter of that political party.

In my comment, I have never questioned the contribution by the Nehru family towards India in its freedom struggle. I admire the family. But, that in no way means I am going to hero worship them blindly.

The fact of the matter is that the hyper extension of economic policies - they said the Government should be in all strategically important sectors - they were in everything even in paper - what was so strategic about paper that the Government needed to be part of it, , the war against China, where we were betrayed by the Chinese or atleast Nehru felt so was a mistake. I would suggest you read the book on J R D Tata - Beyond the Last Blue Mountain: the Authorised Biography of J.R.D. Tata by R M Lala, in ther JRD was quoted as saying that once Nehru commented to him that he ‘hated’ the word profit and it was ok if the PSUs did not make money.and to never ever utter the word to him again. Well, what that meant was a lot of our taxes went in the drain to the PSUs which was a waste, because their bosses never expected to make profits because as the leader of the country, the CEO of the PSUs was making a comment which said profit nahi kiya chalta hai. Maybe that’s where the chalta hai attitude came through huh?

You have yourself mentioned that Shashi Tharoor said that the period from the Lal Bahadur Shastri’s death to the 90s (1966-1990 is 24 years) was economically the worst period of Indian economy, guess who ruled the majority of the time - - the members of Nehru family (Indira - 15, Rajiv - 5) for 20 years out of it. What does that tell you? By the way thanks for making that point for me.

By the way, do not come back to me on this and say that let’s talk about Nehru first and Indira later. The point I am trying to make is about the Nehru family not Jawaharlal Nehru.

I really take offense to the fact that you insinuated by saying thus, “Another thing popped into mind. If you are the Gandhian you say you are, it may be a good idea of revisit his “Hate the sin, not the sinner” theory in light of your BOLD “what else canyou expect from the Nehru-Gandhi family” statement…”. What makes you think that I ‘hate’ the Nehru family, is being critical of one’s achievements hateful. Come on give me a break, this is what makes think more that you have drank too much of the Congress cow piss as Kool Aid.

This is all I ask, do not be afraid to ask what they did for our country, when they ask for our votes to lead the country. You do not question you do not encourage good governance. If you are content being lead astray by the Congress spin and are happy drinking the Kool-Aid dished out to you, you are more than welcome. But, do not tell me that I am a rightist, leftist or centrist or populist. I am just a realist trying to find answers to relevant questions.

I have never said the Nehru family has not done anything, but they have not done enough and by doing so they let us down. ‘Garibi Hatao’ has been just a slogan what about the implementation, what did the ‘Aam Aadmi’ get from the current UPA government. I am not saying the BJP/other parties at the center are any better but when your supporters claim that on virtue of birth, a person can become a leader.

Also, do not come back and tell me that Sonia ‘gave up’ her seat. She is a smart cookie, put in a puppet both in Dr. Manmohan Singh’s case and in (what is the name of our President by the way) Mrs. Patil….. something, oh wait, its Pratibha Patil, isn’t it?

Another case in point, yesterday the Finance Minister P. Chidambaram announced the Budget and you had farmers who were lined up outside 10 Janpath with tractors, waving Congress flags, within minutes of the Budget announcement, wow, never knew so many farmers were in New Delhi, did you?

And on Times Now, Arnab Goswami(photo) asked Rajeev Shukla, a Congress MP, “who do you give credit for this budget?” ,you know who - the UPA Chairperson, the Prime Minister and his cabinet. Note the order, I shall repeat again - the UPA Chairperson, the Prime Minister and his cabinet. Do not believe me how about checking it out with Arnab himself or someone at Times Now.

That itself shows that they value the UPA Chairperson more than the Prime Minister of this land. This is what I mean by the bullshit that Congress feeds - the reforms were initiated by Rajiv Gandhi, Narasimha Rao just followed him - LIES AND BULLSHIT this is. Rajiv did bring in reforms but it was not as wide as Rao’s and Rao did not follow him he was a path breaker.

The Budget 2008 was made by the UPA Chairperson - Sonia Gandhi - oh what a lie!!! So, P Chidambaram should be removed as the Finance Minister and Madam Sonia should be made the FM if she is so good.

The Congress has marketed them to many Indians so well, you just dont’t think and blindly hero worship.

I want to end this post, with the following quotes:

“Hero-worship in the sense of expressing our unbound admiration is one thing. To obey the hero is a totally different kind of worship. There is nothing wrong in the former while the latter is no doubt a most pernicious thing. The former is man’s respect for which is noble and of which the great men are only an embodiment. The latter is the serf’s fealty to his lord. The former is consistent with respect, but the latter is a sign of debasement. The former does not take away one’s intelligence to think and independence to act. The latter makes one perfect fool. The former involves no disaster to the state. The latter is a source of positive danger to it.” - Dr. B.R. Ambedkar

“Hero-worship is mostly idol gossip”- Anonymous

You know on which side I stand (refer Dr. Ambedkar’s quote), what about you? Right now, I feel you are in the latter group like millions possibly even billion Indians. Change my friend, cause that is when we will see change in this world.

Please do not be a source of positive danger to the state. (refer Dr. Ambedkar quote)

UPDATE 2nd March 2008:

I posted on Mutiny, asking 1conoclast to respond. And he responded thus:

VS…

I hope you’re feeling better now.

If I’m not mistaken, I had visited your blog some time back, read a post of yours, found it commendable & commented on it.

There are a few reasons why I’ve not clicked on the link you’ve provided:
-The discussion began here & must be carried on in this very forum, for all to see.
-I know that this isn’t your intention, but some people may use the same method to divert traffic to their sites.
-I am therefore still waiting for your response. It’s taking rather long I must say. (Don’t take that last sentence seriously; I’m just practising my sledging)

We’ll see about an open mind, once your response is on this site. I have the time (it being the weekend) & the open mind. Over to you, my friend.

I said very well, since my intention was to avoid Mutiny from taking a load on its resources because my response was long, I pasted this post over and told him that I felt if he had to resort to sledging he was not so sure about his own abilities to present his case to which he responded:

VS…

To your point, “I have always believed that when you resort to sledging it means you are not so sure you can do well on your own abilities”…
I thought point of this entire conversation was to correct what you “believe”!
Now to your reply. I MUST say, THAT is the LONGEST reply I have EVER encountered…!!! I will always wonder how 2 or 3 questions can possible elicit this long an essay! Before I begin my rebuttal, allow me to say that while I may not agree with all the points, it is one of the finest responses I have encountered on this blog.

I’m not in the least bit disheartened at your ruining my “Tehelka” expose. I had already stated that even if the piece was true, it should by no means warrant a blanket indictment of Nehru. It’s just one snippet of information. It hasn’t been analyzed, it’s reasons haven’t been analyzed. In fact the end of the article points out that at a time when India didn’t have a foreign policy, Nehru had one. We may criticize that foreign policy in the light of the political situation today, but at that time, Nehru’s non-alignment mantra may have had immense merit. Question for you again: Where were the naysayers then? Did anyone object at that time to Nehru’s (apparent) decision? Or was everyone else sleeping? Are we (& possibly Tharoor too?) abusing the advantage that hindsight gives us?

I never SAID that you were comparing Nehruji to hitler! I only asked you to refrain from mentioning him in the same breath as Nehruji. Something that you have still gone ahead & done. Something that I can’t bring myself to do. Anyway…

You haven’t come back to me with your views on the Wiki section on Nehru’s achievements. You only make a passing, grudging reference to it with your “Nehru did do things that really changed India - notable being Industrialization, foreign policy (though I felt he leant too much to the Left creating a rift with the US, further stoked by his daughter, Indira), secularism that he proposed” statement.
You & others who criticise the governance, fail to make the disclaimer that you’re focusing on the failings of people who have otherwise contributed immensely to this nation!
I don’t see any achievements from anyone else but the Congress (& therefore the Nehru dynasty?)! The IIM’s, the IIT’s, the education, the industrialization that your grudgingly mention. Who should the credit go to?
It is in this light that I took offence to your blanket “Well, what else can you expect out of the Nehru family?”. It is not a fair & balanced view at all. It is malicious & reeks of the cow-dung that the bjp feeds you, and you so obviously savour, as if it was “gajar ka halwa”! (Sorry about that one, but you started it!)

So everything happens in India because of outside influences like the IMF…? Interesting…

In response to your “garibi hati nahi mere dost” comment, I will quote Lord Meghnad Desai. He stated, “The decline in Indian poverty levels from roughly 40 per cent in 1980 to roughly 20 per cent would not have happened without globalisation”. Source here: http://www.indianexpress.com/sunday/story/273786._.html

“was economically the worst period of Indian economy” section. You missed my point entirely. Again I think you’re seeing only what you want to (or taught to) see! I’d like to point out that Tharoor (if he said what he did, I don’t know this for sure, I’ve only heard) referred to a period after Nehru. He didn’t call Nehru’s period bad economically!!! Where does that leave your earlier argument about his leftist leanings keeping us behind? So, I didn’t make any point for you really!

I don’t think you “I think. I speak. I comment” as you claim. The problem here is this: You speak/comment, & then I have to make you think!!! Another example:

““what else canyou expect from the Nehru-Gandhi family” statement…”. What makes you think that I ‘hate’ the Nehru family”… I never said you hated them. I just indicated that your statement that kicked this off was unfair & biased. If you had changed that statement a little, add a disclaimer or two, things would be different.

Lastly, your calling for change is noble. I am content in the belief that I am “the change” in this country. In light of what India has recently become, I am happy that I am a departure from the norm. Today’s generation slams Gandhiji. And Nehru. And believes that India’s answers lie in violent protests, rioting, separatism. I don’t. I continue to stand for the good, the right and I don’t paint genuine Indian leaders black. Now that you’ve done the iconoclastic bit that I set out to do, maybe it’s time for you to change?

I was pissed, who the fuck does this guy think he is when he so conveniently ignores my very relevant questions, when he so conveniently chooses a small part of an interview of Lord Desai which he himself linked to. I said this guy has the balls to tell me I am biased. So, with my blood boiling I decided to write down, then I said wait a minute, I cannot do that, that will only bring me down to the level of this guy, then I cooled down and I finally responded:

1conoclast,
You yourself admitted it was a long reply, but you did not have the courtesy to go through it in its entirety, did not think on it and just shot off a response. I thank you for skimming through the post, but I felt it was a very important topic that needed a detailed response.

I think you need to revisit my response as you clearly fail to read the sentence where I talk about my political affiliation. Seems you have a problem with the fact that if I oppose the Congress or its leaders, I am pro BJP - not necessarily get that straight into your head.

My point is that I am not ‘grudgingly’ accepting the Nehru’s achievements, I commend him for it. I have no objections to Nehru’s NAM which I felt was a stately masterstroke, but you clearly forget that Indira Gandhi took us away from the US to lean more towards the Soviet, so how does that make you Non Aligned that is my question, which you so conveniently ignore?

You think I ate up the cow dung from the BJP, well guess what, the BJP cannot present this argument the way I did, because it does not look at it the way I look at and you certainly cannot look at it.

You have very cleverly focussed on the achievements and ignored the failures. The reason why I am focussing on the failure is to provide a balanced viewpoint. You quoted Shashi Tharoor and not me, so don’t ask me for the reference. But you still have not come back to me on the fact that 24 years after Shashtri, 20 were ruled by members of the Nehru family, so what about the failure that Tharoor was talking about.

You clearly forget that I am talking about the Nehru Family’s Political Dynasty and that the Congress is making you drink Kool Aid, which obviously reflects in your response. No response to my point on Sonia Gandhi getting credit for Budget 2008.

You want to talk about IITs and IIMs, well let’s talk about it. How about the fact that the original vision of the IITs was to foster scientific development in India on the lines of research in the US universities. But, what happened, since 1953 25,000 (source: The World Is Flat: A Brief History of the Twenty-first Century. USA: by Thomas L. Friedman) IITians left our country and enriched the US. Don’t come back and give me the sada hua logic of the fact that they sent forex back to India when India needed it. Imagine if we had given them an open economy, which encouraged entrepreneurship we would have gained a lot more than the measly forex we earnt. Which is what happened after we liberalized the economy, the brain drain percentage went down from 70% to 30% (source: http://www.newkerala.com/news2.php?action=fullnews&id=21668).

You argue that liberalization reduced poverty, so the question is who liberalized the economy - members of the Nehru Family - the answer is NO. It was P V Narasimha Rao and Manmohan Singh, who at that time was a non political person unlike today. So, does not that mean that if we had liberalized we would have been a better country economically. Also, I don’t buy into the 20% figure that much, because percentages lie. 40% of 100 is 20% of 200. What I a making the point is that the population has increased massively since 1980 to 2008 we are a 1 billion+ people. So, would not read too much into it. Even if I take the figure at face value - it means that 20% of 1.2 billion is 240 million which is still a very high figure of people who are poor. The devil always lies in the details, look carefully. This is why I said I think - I go into details unlike dig something up and say hey I have proved my point. Go deeper my friend, devil is always in the details like I said.

You want to talk about education, how many primary schools in this country provide quality education to the poor. We have a defense equipment manufacturing industry which is highly regulated by the Government, how is it that we still spend so much on our defense, because we have to buy most of it from other nations. Tell me why?

Who edited the constitution to suit her own purposes and added the word ‘Socialist’ to our constitution - Indira Gandhi.

Thanks once again for making it obvious that you do not want to see the truth, you want to idol worship the Nehru family you are more than welcome, but what you are not welcome to do is force me to do the same or deride me for not doing the same.

The comment about the Nehru family was that they have always overpromised and under delivered. And in all instances, it has been proved so. You did not choose to respond to my points about Amethi, you do not believe me go there and see for yourself for I have done so and I have seen Rae Bareili too, that’s where my cousin got married, so I have been there after Sonia was elected from there and I was appalled.

You again are insinuating that by talking about Nehru and HItler in the same breath, I am belittling Nehru, which is again wrong. I have explained it to you that I am just saying that the legacy is what the media makes it out to be- which you have conveniently ignored and chosen to take off on a different mode.

If you did not insinuate that I hated the Nehru family, then what does the point about me being a Gandhian and should follow the policy of ‘Hate the sin. hate not the sinner.” That felt like a subtle way of saying that I hate the Nehru family, so I thought of putting on record that it was not so.

The talk of current generation deriding Gandhi and Nehru is it aimed at me? Then my friend you are absolutely wrong. If you talk about rioting and violence, I have never indulged in the same, never endorsed the same. In fact, I criticize Modi more than I criticize Nehru family - that’s another post another day. You talk about being the change, what change have you brought, have you bothered about the execution ability of the leaders across the political spectrum? Have you questioned them about their leadership, their values, their agendas, their ambition for this country? Have you questioned them why you should vote for them based on who their ancestors were?

Have you questioned at all my friend? My aim in life is to make our political process transparent which is why I believe we should directly elect our PM, let it be a person to person contest and let’s make that one person accountable for it. Let, thought leaders in the respective areas lead the ministries. Much like the Presidential form of Government.

Why is it that my statement about the family has become the statement against the man Nehru and why is it that my viewpoints on Nehru the PM disrespectful of Nehru the freedom fighter.

Can you not look at them dispassionately and compare the difference. Nehru as the PM is as open to criticism as are other PM’s after him, why should Nehru and Indira’s involvement in the freedom struggle absolve them of the mistakes they made as the PM.

Let’s take Budget 2008, the 60,000 crore relief for farmers, who is praised and who is reaping the benefit, Sonia Gandhi. And will it provide relief for farmers - rich farmers YES poor farmers NO. You want to know why? Because majority of farmers take money from the village moneylender and those farmers live in abject poverty and are enslaved by the moneylender. Who is going to pay for it? The tax payer? Hell No - its going to be the banks - which means that the majority of deposits that a lot of small savers might have put can be jeopardized because the Govt. will provide liquidity to the banks over 3 years. Why should the government then not improve agricultural productivity, how about a radical solution as saying that those who want to enter into retail sector need to adopt a certain number of villages, that is Public Private Partnership at its best - then see how the agriculture industry is transformed, case in point, the ITC e-choupal.

But, no one asks these questions, because they believe the media will ask these questions, but the media does not have the balls. When people like me question it, you and people who think like you counter by saying you pay respect to them dont ask such questions.

This clearly shows that you cannot make me think because my thinking is a level at which you have not graduated to. And by the way, who taught me about Nehru, our textbook, let’s see which of our textbooks reflect on Nehru’s policies in a critical manner.

You say that my post is biased, so are you, you want to take the good side, I am balancing by saying hey all humans are both successes and failures. Including I and you.

If you at least read the Ambedkar’s quote than you shall probably understand and probably not maybe you are not intellectual enough to understand the depth of that statement.

As far as trying to change the way I think, forget about it, you cannot change my thinking pattern because I search for truth, none of it is pure hearsay, everything has a reference and a source and something that I do not just quote for it because I think before I do so unlike you who jumps up with joy and says wow found something that matches what I think.

Counter me with facts not with noise. Any argument that does not contain facts is pure noise.

And followed it up with this, as I had missed a pertinent point:

1conoclast,
Missed one more point, which I just remembered how about the fact that Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi are credited with the NREGA (National Rural Employment Guarantee Act) has been criticized by Lord Desai in the same link that you added.

You are the one who is conveniently quoting the answer to the last question, kyun bhai poori baat nahi padoge?

And Lord Desai has been clamoring for the Congress-BJP alliance as it makes more sense. Well, that tells you about his political affiliations.

He also mentioned about the Anti-Sikh riots for which no member of the Nehru family has ever apologized in fact, Rajiv Gandhi even said, “When a big tree falls, the earth trembles!” but no one had the fucking temerity to ask, where there only Sikhs under the tree?

You think Rajiv Gandhi could not have averted it. Could Rajiv Gandhi not have apologized. Could he not have quickly ordered a commission of enquiry, we are so quick to criticize Modi and I feel he is also one big dickhead for doing what the fuck he did in 2002. And he also did not apologize, maybe he took his inspiration from Rajiv, come on man give me a break. Do not idol worship them.

You do not come and tell me about Rajiv Gandhi as the PM as it was all noise and nothing else (again overpromise and underdeliver).

Like I said - Talk without facts and you will fall flat. Don’t subvert the things, the truth is in the details which is why they say the devil is in details. Take a loan from a bank and see if you can trust them blindly. Come on man, be practical, be realistic and be factual - 100% don’t give me emotional bullshit that Nehru was a great freedom fighter he can do no wrong. Nehru was a great freedom fighter one of the best India has ever had. But he is definitely not as great a PM. What is wrong in saying that? And what is wrong in saying that his successors (including his immediate family members) have not been better either. You are so open to receive criticism of non Nehru family members but not about the family itself.

Sorry friend, that shows you have been drinking a lot of Kool-Aid that is cowpiss in disguise. By the way ‘Drinking Kool_Aid’ actually means that you are believing in marketing spin similar to FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt). There is no such thing as ‘eating Kool-Aid’.